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  • Does anyone else think its a bummer that Scott Speedman isn't returning for the fifth movie?

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    • I don’t really care about him leaving, but what happened to Eve? She isn’t listed as being in the cast. You can’t just write Selene’s daughter out of the script.

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    • What about Eve?

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    • She’s apparently not in the upcoming movie. I suddenly think that this film isn’t going to be very good...

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    • Awakening was a terrible movie........

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    • What was wrong with it? Other than Michael never showing up. I guess I didn’t like Selene reaching into David’s heart and restarting it. That’s already been done in the Matrix.

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    • I hated the purges, and the tri blood hybrid idea

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    • Yellowantphil wrote:
      What was wrong with it? Other than Michael never showing up. I guess I didn’t like Selene reaching into David’s heart and restarting it. That’s already been done in the Matrix.

      Thank you for saying it! I was not a fan of Selene restarting his heart, nor do I understand how she did it. Was her blood exposed?

      AND I wish Scott Speedman reprised his role as Michale instead of casting some lookalike. And YES! Why is Eve not listed in the cast for Blood Wars? I can't find any indication that she'll be in the next movie. 

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      I hated the purges, and the tri blood hybrid idea

      I didn't like the purges either.

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    • Yeah, there are those that view the purges favorably.

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    • Remiruye wrote:

      Yellowantphil wrote:
      What was wrong with it? Other than Michael never showing up. I guess I didn’t like Selene reaching into David’s heart and restarting it. That’s already been done in the Matrix.

      Thank you for saying it! I was not a fan of Selene restarting his heart, nor do I understand how she did it. Was her blood exposed?

      The wiki article for David says that Selene put her own hybrid blood directly into his heart, which revived him. She must have bit her wrist first to make her blood mix with his. I can’t find my DVD at the moment, so I can’t check.

      I guess it almost makes sense, but I wish they had done that scene differently.

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    • Yellowantphil wrote:

      Remiruye wrote:

      Yellowantphil wrote:
      What was wrong with it? Other than Michael never showing up. I guess I didn’t like Selene reaching into David’s heart and restarting it. That’s already been done in the Matrix.
      Thank you for saying it! I was not a fan of Selene restarting his heart, nor do I understand how she did it. Was her blood exposed?

      The wiki article for David says that Selene put her own hybrid blood directly into his heart, which revived him. She must have bit her wrist first to make her blood mix with his. I can’t find my DVD at the moment, so I can’t check.

      I guess it almost makes sense, but I wish they had done that scene differently.

      I have the movie on BluRay, but I haven't had the chance to rewatch it, since I've only seen the movie once in theaters and then once when I received the disc. I'm currently trying to rewatch the movies in order of the timeline and I'm currently on Rise of the Lycans. Once I rewatch Awakening, I'll post what I see.

      Though, if it's like how I remember, I wont see any wound or cut on her hand. 

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    • Remiruye wrote:

      I have the movie on BluRay, but I haven't had the chance to rewatch it, since I've only seen the movie once in theaters and then once when I received the disc. I'm currently trying to rewatch the movies in order of the timeline and I'm currently on Rise of the Lycans. Once I rewatch Awakening, I'll post what I see.

      Speaking of watching in order of the timeline, I tried to figure out how to watch the films in chronological order and wrote this (the “Chronological order” section). I think it’s accurate, but I’m no expert. I haven’t watched the films in that order yet.

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    • Yellowantphil wrote:

      Speaking of watching in order of the timeline, I tried to figure out how to watch the films in chronological order and wrote this (the “Chronological order” section). I think it’s accurate, but I’m no expert. I haven’t watched the films in that order yet.

      Very well written, I will definitely give this order a try!

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    • I'm upset that Selene won't be the main character in the sixth film as well.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      I'm upset that Selene won't be the main character in the sixth film as well.

      Really? Where was that posted? Will David be in the lead role?

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    • It wasn't. I don't think. But I suspect that she won't be the main character in the sixth film.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      It wasn't. I don't think. But I suspect that she won't be the main character in the sixth film.

      Ahh, you're probably right. We'll see how the movie is when it comes out in October.

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    • Uh you mean the 5th one. The sixth one has no release date yet.

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    • One reason why I don't like that Selene won't be the main character in Blood Wars is that ruins the idea that Underworld is one of the few movie series that has a consistent female lead character.

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    • But the other reason is that I hate change.

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    • Remiruye wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      It wasn't. I don't think. But I suspect that she won't be the main character in the sixth film.

      Ahh, you're probably right. We'll see how the movie is when it comes out in October.

      January now, according to IMDb. :-/

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    • Yeah

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    • Yellowantphil wrote:

      January now, according to IMDb. :-/

      January?! What the heck! Filming for this movie finished in December of last year! You'd think they'd be done.

      But this may be to release the movie in January like the all the other movies (aside from Underworld).

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    • Awakening was f***ing awesome. I liked that they brought in a new character (Eve) and teased at Michael being dead then alive but..where TF is Scott Speedman?? You cant just dice out a main character like that for no reason! I just know they are going to downplay Michael's role in the new movie with this new actor, but I'll still be seeing it the day it comes out!!!

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    • I won't.

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    • I'm watching Awakening at the moment, before I see Blood Wars. Selene does cut her hand with a sword before restarting David's heart. Just thought I'd clear that up.

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    • Jee wiz.. after all that watching and waiting to see what will happen when a vampire's blood mixes with a werewolfs blood...smh.  You kill him.  The most upsetting thing is missing the potential ceilings  of Michaels powers.  Thats what I was waiting to see, combined with a down a$$ vampire chic that had his back.. Then you kill him.  Underworld to me isnt good without him.  Im sorry.  Im sure my $14 dollars isnt enough to make anyone really re-shape the franchise.  But, never the less, Im done with underworld.  Ill just watch 1 when I want to see a kick a$$ hybrid with potential.  Goodbye underworld.  And thanks for being alil out of touch with alot of people.

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    • ...ps.  And I thought Michaels blood was unique? Now anyone can turn into a hybrid seems like.

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    • 72.81.222.7 wrote: Jee wiz.. after all that watching and waiting to see what will happen when a vampire's blood mixes with a werewolfs blood...smh.  You kill him.  The most upsetting thing is missing the potential ceilings  of Michaels powers.  Thats what I was waiting to see, combined with a down a$$ vampire chic that had his back.. Then you kill him.  Underworld to me isnt good without him.  Im sorry.  Im sure my $14 dollars isnt enough to make anyone really re-shape the franchise.  But, never the less, Im done with underworld.  Ill just watch 1 when I want to see a kick a$$ hybrid with potential.  Goodbye underworld.  And thanks for being alil out of touch with alot of people.

      I agree with you on that one. Plus remember that Michael should have lost all his blood when he was impaled and yet he survived.

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    • 72.81.222.7 wrote: ...ps.  And I thought Michaels blood was unique? Now anyone can turn into a hybrid seems like.

      His blood is unique, its just that now lots of immortals have access to the original Corvinus strain.

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    • How could you kill Michael?!?! He didnt even get a chance to live!!?! What a joke... two thumbs down

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    • Bring Michael Corvin back. He has both bloodlines and definitely stronger than both. Give him a proper ending cause the one given to him in blood wars was quite a bummer and low for the guy.

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    • IMO one of the best Vampire/Werewolf movies.

      But killing off Michael is so stupid! I didn't even watch Blood Wars, just read about it.  

      One thing I hate is that Michael was "unique" then in Awakening, the purge was stupid and then slowly peopl started having access to the Corvinus strain.  Then Blood Wars WTH! Everyone has access to it, so in order for Selene to be better she needs something else.  Its like watching a movie with a bunch of Superman when everyone is Superman then no one is Superman!  Its like a dime a dozen now! 

      I still like the idea of Michael and Eve as a Hybrid. 

      The problem with the movie is that they try so hard to make it about a "Female" lead.  Nothing wrong with a strong female lead but the fact is that there was never a proper ending type for Michael, it’s just suddenly he disappeared.  If he was just a normal human being then I have no issues them killing him off since he’d be useless.  But this was the main theme of the movie “Hybrid” started with Lucian’s unborn baby.

      I don't care of Scott Speedman didn't want to be in the movie again they can always replace him.

      But I hope there is another movie perhaps this time Michael's resurection.  He died once already why not do it again.  They can find some unique way to resurect him, he's the only "pure and direct descendant" of the Corvinus, well except Eve.   But again everyone has the Corvinus strain! 

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      • spoilers*

      I'm still pissed off about them killing off Michael.. i still enjoyed it and will always be a fan, and i appreciate that all the 5 films have at least attempted decent continuity with one another in some way. But  I found Michael and Selene's chemistry really worked and was totally believable, and Eve wasn't in the fifth one anyway! Without Selene it would have suffered even more, but I can not think of a single fan who wouldn't have wanted the Selene/Michael/Eve trinity in an underworld film. They could have brought back Michael since eve was in hiding, or at least have him for 10 minutes here and there and show him being killed if they wanted him dead.. We deserved that as loyal fans.. i didn't get to feel anything in realtime with Michael's death, and they have dealt with the entire Michael situation very poorly since awakening. Underworld evolutiojn was the best (IMO), and I guess it always will be.

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    • 221.121.145.42 wrote:

      • spoilers*

      I'm still pissed off about them killing off Michael.. i still enjoyed it and will always be a fan, and i appreciate that all the 5 films have at least attempted decent continuity with one another in some way. But  I found Michael and Selene's chemistry really worked and was totally believable, and Eve wasn't in the fifth one anyway! Without Selene it would have suffered even more, but I can not think of a single fan who wouldn't have wanted the Selene/Michael/Eve trinity in an underworld film. They could have brought back Michael since eve was in hiding, or at least have him for 10 minutes here and there and show him being killed if they wanted him dead.. We deserved that as loyal fans.. i didn't get to feel anything in realtime with Michael's death, and they have dealt with the entire Michael situation very poorly since awakening. Underworld evolutiojn was the best (IMO), and I guess it always will be.

      I agree.

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    • 221.121.145.42 wrote:
      *spoilers*

      I'm still pissed off about them killing off Michael.. i still enjoyed it and will always be a fan, and i appreciate that all the 5 films have at least attempted decent continuity with one another in some way. But  I found Michael and Selene's chemistry really worked and was totally believable, and Eve wasn't in the fifth one anyway! Without Selene it would have suffered even more, but I can not think of a single fan who wouldn't have wanted the Selene/Michael/Eve trinity in an underworld film. They could have brought back Michael since eve was in hiding, or at least have him for 10 minutes here and there and show him being killed if they wanted him dead.. We deserved that as loyal fans.. i didn't get to feel anything in realtime with Michael's death, and they have dealt with the entire Michael situation very poorly since awakening. Underworld evolutiojn was the best (IMO), and I guess it always will be.

      For me too! That's actually a nice title for the 6th movie. Underworld: Trinity

      I sitll hope that Michael isn't dead, even though if Scott Speedman doesn't want to be there anymore.

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    • Scott speedman needs to come back for the next underworld... He is the father he can't be dead just like that... Without hem being back in the films i probably won't watch any more

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    • Whoever plays the role of Michael Corvin... I dont really care but he needs to come back

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    • I totally agree! at the end of the day if Speedman doesn't want too, there are plenty of people would want too play his role.

      He is the fulcrum of the whole story from the beginning. Started with HIS blood then everything went downhill.

      It would be really nice to make his role more meaningful!

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    • Yeah I don't care who plays Michael or Selene.

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    • while I enjoy EVERY underworld movie, and I wait impatiently for the next in the series; I can not forget Michael (Scott Speedman). For me his romance with Selene only Heightened my experience with the movie...Just as this movie is Gothic and set in a Darkly Romantic setting, A lot of us are, as fans intrigued by this forbidden romance..I will continue to love the Underworld Series, But I will also continue to hope that Michael will once again make an appearance and be reunited with Selene and Eve  

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    • 105.104.131.99 wrote:
      while I enjoy EVERY underworld movie, and I wait impatiently for the next in the series; I can not forget Michael (Scott Speedman). For me his romance with Selene only Heightened my experience with the movie...Just as this movie is Gothic and set in a Darkly Romantic setting, A lot of us are, as fans intrigued by this forbidden romance..I will continue to love the Underworld Series, But I will also continue to hope that Michael will once again make an appearance and be reunited with Selene and Eve

      I'm not convinced of that. Speedman made it prior to the events of Awakening that he wouldn't be returning in the 4th film, despite the fact most of us expected him to. After all, the ending of the 1st film clearly set up a sequel where he'd return, which was exactly what happened in Evolution. The ending of Evolution did the same thing, so everyone expected the same thing. People let it go because Rise of the Lycans was a prequel, even though it wasn't really necessary (lorewise anyway), but the moment Awakening was announced people wanted to see him again. I guess some fans accepted his disappearance because Michael was captured and imprisoned by Antigen for all those years, but since he was freed at the end of the film, people expected to see him again in Blood Wars. That he didn't was a disappointment, made worse still that Michael never even realized he has a daughter.

      I'll give the 6th film another shot for him, but if they leave the questioning hanging again of if he'll ever return....

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      I'm not convinced of that. Speedman made it prior to the events of Awakening that he wouldn't be returning in the 4th film, despite the fact most of us expected him to.

      Not his choice which can't be said enough. People constantly blame him for 'not wanting to return' when it's in fact Len's lack of writing ability. He wrote Michael out of Awakening.

      IMO the switch from Michael to Eve happened because people didn't know how much longer Kate would be willing to play Selene and they were looking for another female lead connected to Selene. But since Eve gets the Michael treatment it seems the other reason is the added difficulty of being able to handle and write their kind of hybrid without it overshadowing Selene.

      For me that's like the least reason why I want Michael back. The romance itself also isn't a reason. For me Selene is just much more likeable and complex when Michael is around. That's what fascinated me in the first movie, Michael brough out the woman in Selene. He was also the catalyst for her questioning the status quo.

      I don't have that same attachment to Selene/Eve. You'd think with Len writing Michael out of Awakening to focus on the mother/daughter thing, that this woud actually be a focus. But it wasn't. Selene spends more time with David than her own daughter. And then by BW Eve is suddenly gone and we get some half-assed explanation without any context. So what was the freaking point of writing Michael out and bringing in Eve?

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    • Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.

      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.

      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?

      Probably yes.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.
      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?
      Probably yes.

      I guess the main reason here is because I never watched Awakening, so I don't know if there's limits to Selene's new power after getting Alexander's blood.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.
      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?
      Probably yes.

      I guess the main reason here is because I never watched Awakening, so I don't know if there's limits to Selene's new power after getting Alexander's blood.

      Of course there are limits to Selene's powers.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:
      Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      Except Eve is not. First of all Eve is young so it would probably take a few decades for her to reach her potential. Second, Eve is on Selene's side not on the enemy's. So her function isn't to show what could beat Selene. Mainly Eve is only there as an emotional catalyst and nothing more, even if that's with her totally absent.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.
      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?
      Probably yes.
      I guess the main reason here is because I never watched Awakening, so I don't know if there's limits to Selene's new power after getting Alexander's blood.
      Of course there are limits to Selene's powers.

      How much of this was demonstrated in Awakening?

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.
      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?
      Probably yes.
      I guess the main reason here is because I never watched Awakening, so I don't know if there's limits to Selene's new power after getting Alexander's blood.
      Of course there are limits to Selene's powers.

      How much of this was demonstrated in Awakening?

      Well lets see she was no physical match for Quint Lane and was knocked out by a flash grenade.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.
      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?
      Probably yes.
      I guess the main reason here is because I never watched Awakening, so I don't know if there's limits to Selene's new power after getting Alexander's blood.
      Of course there are limits to Selene's powers.
      How much of this was demonstrated in Awakening?
      Well lets see she was no physical match for Quint Lane and was knocked out by a flash grenade.

      That seems to imply Alexander's blood was more of a hindrance than a benefit.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Bringing in Eve was necessary to bring in a higher power source. After the events of Evolution, many had wondered what would it take to beat Selene. Eve provided the answer to that Q.

      I think Michael had the power to overpower Selene, but then again so did Marcus.
      It's hard to say for Marcus. Look at it this way, if there was no helicopter blade, would the battle have ended differently?
      Probably yes.
      I guess the main reason here is because I never watched Awakening, so I don't know if there's limits to Selene's new power after getting Alexander's blood.
      Of course there are limits to Selene's powers.
      How much of this was demonstrated in Awakening?
      Well lets see she was no physical match for Quint Lane and was knocked out by a flash grenade.

      That seems to imply Alexander's blood was more of a hindrance than a benefit.

      Hmm I didn't think of it that way. But Michael was knocked out by a grenade launcher.

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    • Michael being knocked out that way made sense as the grenade launcher is designed to KILL. A flash grenade isn't lethal by itself....

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Michael being knocked out that way made sense as the grenade launcher is designed to KILL. A flash grenade isn't lethal by itself....

      Selene was knocked out by another grenade that made a big flash, I dunno what kind of grenade it was

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Michael being knocked out that way made sense as the grenade launcher is designed to KILL. A flash grenade isn't lethal by itself....

      Selene was knocked out by another grenade that made a big flash, I dunno what kind of grenade it was

      Well, on that note you can't really judge Alexander's blood, if you think about it. The whole point of taking his blood was to give Selene the fighting edge against Marcus. It was never about reaping any benefits against military weapons from humans.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Michael being knocked out that way made sense as the grenade launcher is designed to KILL. A flash grenade isn't lethal by itself....

      Selene was knocked out by another grenade that made a big flash, I dunno what kind of grenade it was

      Well, on that note you can't really judge Alexander's blood, if you think about it. The whole point of taking his blood was to give Selene the fighting edge against Marcus. It was never about reaping any benefits against military weapons from humans.

      Yeah it never occurred to me that Alexander's blood would weaken Selene, also Quint was 11 feet tall in his lycan form

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Michael being knocked out that way made sense as the grenade launcher is designed to KILL. A flash grenade isn't lethal by itself....

      Selene was knocked out by another grenade that made a big flash, I dunno what kind of grenade it was
      Well, on that note you can't really judge Alexander's blood, if you think about it. The whole point of taking his blood was to give Selene the fighting edge against Marcus. It was never about reaping any benefits against military weapons from humans.
      Yeah it never occurred to me that Alexander's blood would weaken Selene, also Quint was 11 feet tall in his lycan form

      It's also possible this is simply the passage of time. Maybe in the short run it's meant to give Selene benefits. Technically it still did because by the time of Blood Wars she's still immune to sunlight. But in terms of fighting ability...

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Michael being knocked out that way made sense as the grenade launcher is designed to KILL. A flash grenade isn't lethal by itself....

      Selene was knocked out by another grenade that made a big flash, I dunno what kind of grenade it was
      Well, on that note you can't really judge Alexander's blood, if you think about it. The whole point of taking his blood was to give Selene the fighting edge against Marcus. It was never about reaping any benefits against military weapons from humans.
      Yeah it never occurred to me that Alexander's blood would weaken Selene, also Quint was 11 feet tall in his lycan form

      It's also possible this is simply the passage of time. Maybe in the short run it's meant to give Selene benefits. Technically it still did because by the time of Blood Wars she's still immune to sunlight. But in terms of fighting ability...

      That seems unlikely. You ought to see Quint's Lycan form its huge, Hulk like. Here is a link to Quint's transformation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1kvB3SLQS0

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    • I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.

      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.

      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.

      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.
      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.
      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.

      Ok, for curiosity's sake, what evidence you've got to think the lycans aren't strong enough for car lifting?

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.
      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.
      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.

      Ok, for curiosity's sake, what evidence you've got to think the lycans aren't strong enough for car lifting?

      They have never been seen to do so.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.
      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.
      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.
      Ok, for curiosity's sake, what evidence you've got to think the lycans aren't strong enough for car lifting?
      They have never been seen to do so.

      But that doesn't prove they can't do it.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.
      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.
      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.
      Ok, for curiosity's sake, what evidence you've got to think the lycans aren't strong enough for car lifting?
      They have never been seen to do so.

      But that doesn't prove they can't do it.

      True.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.
      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.
      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.
      Ok, for curiosity's sake, what evidence you've got to think the lycans aren't strong enough for car lifting?
      They have never been seen to do so.
      But that doesn't prove they can't do it.
      True.

      Given their increased strength, I just don't see the reason why they can't throw one. Now, if you're talking about a semi truck, then I can see what you're getting at because that's heavier.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I've seen the screenshots. I know he's like 10 to 15 feet tall or something in lycan form.

      He is big enough to throw a car. Though Michael probably could too.
      I thought virtually all lycans would be strong enough for that.
      Me too but its possible they aren't. Or maybe the addition of Alexander's Corvinus Strain doesn't physically empower the user much.
      Ok, for curiosity's sake, what evidence you've got to think the lycans aren't strong enough for car lifting?
      They have never been seen to do so.
      But that doesn't prove they can't do it.
      True.

      Given their increased strength, I just don't see the reason why they can't throw one. Now, if you're talking about a semi truck, then I can see what you're getting at because that's heavier.

      I believe that Lycans could throw cars and possibly a semi truck, but I was noting the other points of view

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    • Ok I see

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Ok I see

      Or even a tank. I like to think that they have that kind of power and so do Lycan and Vampire hybrids and Lycan and Corvinus Strain hybrids.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Ok I see

      Or even a tank. I like to think that they have that kind of power and so do Lycan and Vampire hybrids and Lycan and Corvinus Strain hybrids.

      Well in terms of a tank it's a completely different matter. Even the light tanks in modern militaries we're still talking 25 to 30 tons, way more than the average car.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Ok I see

      Or even a tank. I like to think that they have that kind of power and so do Lycan and Vampire hybrids and Lycan and Corvinus Strain hybrids.

      Well in terms of a tank it's a completely different matter. Even the light tanks in modern militaries we're still talking 25 to 30 tons, way more than the average car.

      I'm well aware that tanks are really heavy

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Ok I see

      Or even a tank. I like to think that they have that kind of power and so do Lycan and Vampire hybrids and Lycan and Corvinus Strain hybrids.
      Well in terms of a tank it's a completely different matter. Even the light tanks in modern militaries we're still talking 25 to 30 tons, way more than the average car.
      I'm well aware that tanks are really heavy

      Therefore I'm not convinced the average lycan can lift and throw one.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Ok I see

      Or even a tank. I like to think that they have that kind of power and so do Lycan and Vampire hybrids and Lycan and Corvinus Strain hybrids.
      Well in terms of a tank it's a completely different matter. Even the light tanks in modern militaries we're still talking 25 to 30 tons, way more than the average car.
      I'm well aware that tanks are really heavy

      Therefore I'm not convinced the average lycan can lift and throw one.

      Yeah you have good reason to be skeptical.

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    • I know, I have to see it in films first.

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    • Guys do you think that maybe this whole Michael death thing was just a way to set up Marius as a formidable enemy and that Len Wiseman purposely had the setting of Michael's death(antigen....right next to his cryo chamber).. directly contradict Eve's vision to set up a resurgence of Michael in the 6th movie?.....it doesn't make sense to me as to how the co-writer of the story of Underworld could make such huge mistakes in his own movie. First he makes Michael survive a fatal injury(steel pike through the heart).....which would cause massive blood loss......which goes against the notion that Michael can be killed by exsanguination.......and in the proir movie Eve has a vision of Michael on the roof......whereas Marius' memories show that he drained Michael in the building. Yet Eve saw Michael on the roof on their escape. Do you honestly think a story writer would put such plot holes into his movie? Len knows that dismemberment kills a hybrid so why didnt he show Michael being dismembered?......he knows that Michael has survived worse injuries yet he still went with the slit the throat angle. And he gave Eve the Michael treatment in blood wars as well.......Len also wrote Michael out of Awakening because and I quote" Michael is such an important Character so we couldn't have him there as a side character"......after examining all of this it makes no sense as to why he would just up and kill Michael......unless he is hinting to the Corvin family re uniting in the last film.......as in the end of BW we saw Inda Isley again. To this date we have had a Michael death scare twice. First in Evolution and then in Awakening when everyone proclaimed that Michael was dead......what if this is another one of those scares? There isn't mich left in the series at this point.....for the final movie giving the fans the Michael Selene Eve ending they have wanted for so long would be a great way to end the series.......In simmary.....I doubt Len would purposely make the above mistakes without a reason. There is so much room for Michael to return.......he can't fuck this up.....unless he is a douche

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    • They'll screw up, they always do

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: They'll screw up, they always do

      Yeah they did well for the first 3 and everything went downhill from there.

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    • I didn't think Blood Wars was a crap film

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    • If michael corvin [ Scott Speedman ] is not going to return then i bet that the ranking of this movie is gonna fall way too much. Guys donot let that happen, pay Speedman with whatever he wants and get him back. For the sake of the UNDERWORLD + Selene, Michael and Eve lovers. PLEASE

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    • You know those things never make a difference

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: You know those things never make a difference

      Nothing ever makes a difference........ :(.

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    • You know they don't listen to the fans

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: You know they don't listen to the fans

      That's what I said...

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    • Did you recall them listening to anything the fans wanted for Evolution?

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Did you recall them listening to anything the fans wanted for Evolution?

      I didn't even know about what the fans wanted before this.

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    • Shame, I had hoped someone would

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    • Sorry.

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    • Regardless, Evolution's time setting was what most people wanted, picking up almost right after the 1st film ended

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Regardless, Evolution's time setting was what most people wanted, picking up almost right after the 1st film ended

      So they did listen......

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Regardless, Evolution's time setting was what most people wanted, picking up almost right after the 1st film ended

      So they did listen......

      I wouldn't say it's LISTENING, more like trying to anticipate what the audience was thinking.

      Awakening in a way did the same thing, as Selene and Michael were in hiding for 6 months, so little trouble came their way. It was a shame they then had to jump 12 years due to cryosleep.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Regardless, Evolution's time setting was what most people wanted, picking up almost right after the 1st film ended

      So they did listen......

      I wouldn't say it's LISTENING, more like trying to anticipate what the audience was thinking.

      Awakening in a way did the same thing, as Selene and Michael were in hiding for 6 months, so little trouble came their way. It was a shame they then had to jump 12 years due to cryosleep.

      Maybe they will listen.

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    • do they not see how fans want the KATE / SCOTT , SELENE / MICHAEL love relationship back

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    • They dont really care about us. If the keep on over looking our objections then very soon no one will give a shit about their suspence. The only reason i have consumed the other two UNDERWORLD movies was to once see a slight appearence of Scott Speedman. Eventhough Awakening was not that much of an upsetting movie because at the beginning Scott made a small appearance. But while fans wanted Scott Speedman or Michael Corvin back in Blood Wars, there they actually killed him like SHIT. Go ahead friends and watch the other UNDERWORLD movies cause i am not going to if Scott speedman is not returning. GOOD BYE UNDERWORLD.

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote:
      do they not see how fans want the KATE / SCOTT , SELENE / MICHAEL love relationship back

      The Q is how many of those fans are out there

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote:
      do they not see how fans want the KATE / SCOTT , SELENE / MICHAEL love relationship back

      Yeah Michael and Selene all the way

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    • Yeah man i love Scott Speedman and Kate Beckinsale together. Their chemistry is remindable.

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    • 88.109.44.30 wrote:
      103.58.74.42 wrote:
      do they not see how fans want the KATE / SCOTT , SELENE / MICHAEL love relationship back
      Yeah Michael and Selene all the way

      I bet, there r a lot of them


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    • 88.109.44.30 wrote:
      103.58.74.42 wrote:
      do they not see how fans want the KATE / SCOTT , SELENE / MICHAEL love relationship back
      Yeah Michael and Selene all the way

      yeah buddy me 2



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    • Alright friends, whoever wants Scott Speedman and Kate Beckinsale back together in UNDERWORLD or any other movie please write back.

      Im waiting

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    • It'll also depend on how many people even notice this page here

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote: Alright friends, whoever wants Scott Speedman and Kate Beckinsale back together in UNDERWORLD or any other movie please write back.

      Im waiting

      I do.

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    • We still need more people to answer

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: We still need more people to answer

      I know but we can't force it

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    • I know that, I'm merely saying until there's more people to answer, we just don't know what they're thinking. And the fact is that this wiki isn't THAT active

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: I know that, I'm merely saying until there's more people to answer, we just don't know what they're thinking. And the fact is that this wiki isn't THAT active

      True

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    • guys what do u think does Kate like Scott

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote: guys what do u think does Kate like Scott

      as a friend yes

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I know that, I'm merely saying until there's more people to answer, we just don't know what they're thinking. And the fact is that this wiki isn't THAT active

      True

      That's why I believe what should happen is early in the next film Eve tries to convince Selene that there's no proof of Michael's death

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    • Yeah man. What a f***ing coincident. I was also thinking the same thing that what if she tries to find out what is true and I m dyingly to see Scott back in UNDERWORLD with Kate. Made for each other sort of pair

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      103.58.74.42 wrote: guys what do u think does Kate like Scott

      as a friend yes

      However, I m happy to know that she does

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    • Hulk10 do u like Kate beckinsale and Scott speedman together

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote: Hulk10 do u like Kate beckinsale and Scott speedman together

      I like their characters together yes

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: I know that, I'm merely saying until there's more people to answer, we just don't know what they're thinking. And the fact is that this wiki isn't THAT active

      True

      That's why I believe what should happen is early in the next film Eve tries to convince Selene that there's no proof of Michael's death

      I agree

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    • And I think that shouldn't be hard, since Selene DID tell Michael back in Evolution that for all we know his power could be limitless

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: And I think that shouldn't be hard, since Selene DID tell Michael back in Evolution that for all we know his power could be limitless

      Yeah I remember and I took that to heart.

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    • But after that because of the intro of all the enemy hybrids, they had to change things

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: But after that because of the intro of all the enemy hybrids, they had to change things

      Not necessarily, Michael and Marcus are the only two hybrids of their type and I think that they are the strongest type of hybrid. I still think we haven't see the full extent of Michael's powers.

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    • Which is true. Again, I'm willing to bet in the 6 months between Evolution and the beginning of Awakening, Michael simply didn't have to use the powers

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which is true. Again, I'm willing to bet in the 6 months between Evolution and the beginning of Awakening, Michael simply didn't have to use the powers

      Yeah Marcus had a pretty impressive array of powers, the blood memory reading, the ability to fly, the ability to use his wings as stabbing weapons. And who knows what other powers a vampire dominant hybrid might have? Though we do know he could sense where his brother was if they were close.

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    • There r so many ways to get Michael Corvin (Scott Speedman) back to the movie, but they dont do that. Its ridiculous to keep Michael aside for Eve if they r not really showing her. There r either ways to keep doing the sequels, either by once making Eve the main lead and finding Michael or protect Eve by Michael as he in stronger than Selen

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote: There r so many ways to get Michael Corvin (Scott Speedman) back to the movie, but they dont do that. Its ridiculous to keep Michael aside for Eve if they r not really showing her. There r either ways to keep doing the sequels, either by once making Eve the main lead and finding Michael or protect Eve by Michael as he in stronger than Selen

      I agree

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which is true. Again, I'm willing to bet in the 6 months between Evolution and the beginning of Awakening, Michael simply didn't have to use the powers

      Yeah Marcus had a pretty impressive array of powers, the blood memory reading, the ability to fly, the ability to use his wings as stabbing weapons. And who knows what other powers a vampire dominant hybrid might have? Though we do know he could sense where his brother was if they were close.

      Yeah but there's also the factor that he was the FIRST vampire, he could have had powers other vampires didn't

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which is true. Again, I'm willing to bet in the 6 months between Evolution and the beginning of Awakening, Michael simply didn't have to use the powers

      Yeah Marcus had a pretty impressive array of powers, the blood memory reading, the ability to fly, the ability to use his wings as stabbing weapons. And who knows what other powers a vampire dominant hybrid might have? Though we do know he could sense where his brother was if they were close.

      Yeah but there's also the factor that he was the FIRST vampire, he could have had powers other vampires didn't

      Yeah, that's the infuriating problem. Of course there is no doubt at all that Marcus and William are dead.

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    • Which goes back to the original Q: if both the hero AND the villain obtain the same type of power, is the hero allowed to survive only because he/she is the hero? Or is there something more to all this?

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which goes back to the original Q: if both the hero AND the villain obtain the same type of power, is the hero allowed to survive only because he/she is the hero? Or is there something more to all this?

      I don't recall that question........

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    • Well it's here again

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Well it's here again

      Because you thought of it. The obvious answer is that the hero has to win. At least that's what I think. However as Michael is lycan dominant I am inclined to think he may be potentially stronger than Marcus

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    • At least the lycans haven't scattered his body parts. So there are chances of Scott ( Michael ) returning to the movie if they really plea to him like that. 

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Well it's here again

      Because you thought of it. The obvious answer is that the hero has to win. At least that's what I think. However as Michael is lycan dominant I am inclined to think he may be potentially stronger than Marcus

      The hero has to win MOST of the time. It doesn't have to apply ALL the time

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Well it's here again

      Because you thought of it. The obvious answer is that the hero has to win. At least that's what I think. However as Michael is lycan dominant I am inclined to think he may be potentially stronger than Marcus

      The hero has to win MOST of the time. It doesn't have to apply ALL the time

      true but I think the hero should win in the end, a few victories of the villain is ok though

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    • Look at it this way: horror films aside (because the bad guy has to win for sequels sake), how many films have you known where the villain actually won at the end?

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Look at it this way: horror films aside (because the bad guy has to win for sequels sake), how many films have you known where the villain actually won at the end?

      Hmm well there is Revenge of the Sith, but aside from that I can't think of any.

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    • If we really think about the villan then we dont have a fixed answer to that. Will we call a person a    ( villan) who started all these wars only to take revenge about the death of his love or we r gonna call that person a ( villan ) who killed his own daughter in order to save the spieces. Keeping that aside we can even see that whoever tried to seperate Michael from Selene or Eve from Selene had died badly. Lucian, Victor, Marcus, Samira, Marius and others. Through that maybe we should get the answer that in this case also villans will lose and heroes will win.

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote:
      If we really think about the villan then we dont have a fixed answer to that. Will we call a person a    ( villan) who started all these wars only to take revenge about the death of his love or we r gonna call that person a ( villan ) who killed his own daughter in order to save the spieces. Keeping that aside we can even see that whoever tried to seperate Michael from Selene or Eve from Selene had died badly. Lucian, Victor, Marcus, Samira, Marius and others. Through that maybe we should get the answer that in this case also villans will lose and heroes will win.

      Yes but Viktor was a villain LONG before killing his daughter. His actions in using the lycans as slaves and expecting it would remain that way forever would have caused them to rebel eventually.

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    • Yeah it can be that way. U r rite

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    • But he also showed humbleness by spearing Lucian and Selene's lives

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote:
      Yeah it can be that way. U r rite

      What Lucian did in the 3rd film was something other lycans would have done eventually anyway

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    • But they did not have a full prove plan as Lucian since Sonja was with him.

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    • Not at that moment, no, but they would have eventually

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      103.58.74.42 wrote:
      If we really think about the villan then we dont have a fixed answer to that. Will we call a person a    ( villan) who started all these wars only to take revenge about the death of his love or we r gonna call that person a ( villan ) who killed his own daughter in order to save the spieces. Keeping that aside we can even see that whoever tried to seperate Michael from Selene or Eve from Selene had died badly. Lucian, Victor, Marcus, Samira, Marius and others. Through that maybe we should get the answer that in this case also villans will lose and heroes will win.

      Yes but Viktor was a villain LONG before killing his daughter. His actions in using the lycans as slaves and expecting it would remain that way forever would have caused them to rebel eventually.

      In my opinion Lucien was never really the villain.

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    • Yes that was a part of history that Viktor distorted

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Yes that was a part of history that Viktor distorted

      Yup

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    • It's something we see all the time in history. This is why I'm also hoping Selene would tell the others the story how the war REALLY began

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: It's something we see all the time in history. This is why I'm also hoping Selene would tell the others the story how the war REALLY began

      True enough

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    • Otherwise I can easily see Selene grow tired of the vampires at the coven, who seem to just blindly follow Viktor

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Otherwise I can easily see Selene grow tired of the vampires at the coven, who seem to just blindly follow Viktor

      Yeah same

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      103.58.74.42 wrote:
      If we really think about the villan then we dont have a fixed answer to that. Will we call a person a    ( villan) who started all these wars only to take revenge about the death of his love or we r gonna call that person a ( villan ) who killed his own daughter in order to save the spieces. Keeping that aside we can even see that whoever tried to seperate Michael from Selene or Eve from Selene had died badly. Lucian, Victor, Marcus, Samira, Marius and others. Through that maybe we should get the answer that in this case also villans will lose and heroes will win.
      Yes but Viktor was a villain LONG before killing his daughter. His actions in using the lycans as slaves and expecting it would remain that way forever would have caused them to rebel eventually.
      In my opinion Lucien was never really the villain.

      I said the same thing that Lucian should not be considered as a villan as he started all these to take revenge about the death of his love, else he only wanted to be free. Rather I wanted to say that whoever tried to seperate the Corvin family had died badly eventhough not being the very VILLAN. 

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Otherwise I can easily see Selene grow tired of the vampires at the coven, who seem to just blindly follow Viktor

      Yeah same

      And the lycans would point out it would mean for centuries, the reasons behind why the vampires wanted to kill them off is simply "because Viktor told them to."

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Otherwise I can easily see Selene grow tired of the vampires at the coven, who seem to just blindly follow Viktor

      Yeah same

      And the lycans would point out it would mean for centuries, the reasons behind why the vampires wanted to kill them off is simply "because Viktor told them to."

      Yeah I agree

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    • At which point then the whole thing would become ludicrous.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: At which point then the whole thing would become ludicrous.

      Oh yeah especially since the lugubrious Viktor is dead

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: At which point then the whole thing would become ludicrous.

      Oh yeah especially since the lugubrious Viktor is dead

      Then you'd just have an abstract loyalty concept without even questioning what you're really fighting for

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: At which point then the whole thing would become ludicrous.

      Oh yeah especially since the lugubrious Viktor is dead

      Then you'd just have an abstract loyalty concept without even questioning what you're really fighting for

      Yeah

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    • I mean granted it's fine for a while during the medieval age, but even then people will ultimately start asking once the war drags on for too long

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    • Its needed to be done for the spicies as both of the parties hate each other and that makes themselves a threat for each other. Its a do or die concept. The vampiers r smarter and they dont want a dangeour for their future so they had Death Dealers to kill the lycans for their future safety.

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    • Maybe they were too scared of Viktor to ask

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      Maybe they were too scared of Viktor to ask

      Which again would only make things bad for him. Ruling by fear alone will ultimately cause rebellion

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      Maybe they were too scared of Viktor to ask

      Which again would only make things bad for him. Ruling by fear alone will ultimately cause rebellion

      Indeed

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    • This happened during medieval Europe in real life anyway.

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    • They actually obeyed him as for being the king and later an elder

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    • But he still ruled via fear

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    • I feel all kings and rulers r cruel, oppressive and cold hearted. So the pepol were naturally  scared of victor cause there is no reason of putting their emotions or reasons of doing sumthin  infront of a cold hearted person. Who wuld never understand the situations of others unless their also involved.

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    • Viktor was never a king. He was a lord.

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    • 103.58.74.42 wrote:
      I feel all kings and rulers r cruel, oppressive and cold hearted. So the pepol were naturally  scared of victor cause there is no reason of putting their emotions or reasons of doing sumthin  infront of a cold hearted person. Who wuld never understand the situations of others unless their also involved.

      Yeah but if you think about it, is that really any different from the politicians we have today? People have been saying for years that we elected them, yet all they serve is their own selfish interests

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      103.58.74.42 wrote:
      I feel all kings and rulers r cruel, oppressive and cold hearted. So the pepol were naturally  scared of victor cause there is no reason of putting their emotions or reasons of doing sumthin  infront of a cold hearted person. Who wuld never understand the situations of others unless their also involved.

      Yeah but if you think about it, is that really any different from the politicians we have today? People have been saying for years that we elected them, yet all they serve is their own selfish interests

      Some politicians don't serve their own selfish interests. but the ones we have today do.........

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    • That's my point, and I DID say the ones today

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: That's my point, and I DID say the ones today

      Yes you did indeed say that.

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    • The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.

      There's a saying that the powerless have the power to defeat the all-powerful

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.

      There's a saying that the powerless have the power to defeat the all-powerful

      Oh really/

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.
      There's a saying that the powerless have the power to defeat the all-powerful
      Oh really/

      Now granted this is based on the assumption that the so-called all-powerful isn't a real god

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.
      There's a saying that the powerless have the power to defeat the all-powerful
      Oh really/

      Now granted this is based on the assumption that the so-called all-powerful isn't a real god

      Well I have an obsession with non gods being able to outmuscle gods

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.
      There's a saying that the powerless have the power to defeat the all-powerful
      Oh really/
      Now granted this is based on the assumption that the so-called all-powerful isn't a real god
      Well I have an obsession with non gods being able to outmuscle gods

      This is something we can see in the real world today. It's exactly the reason why bosses have to know there's a limit to their power abuse

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: The lycans could argue that Viktor was a warlord and meant to be cruel, perhaps even to his own people, but at the end of the day, he's not a GOD

      And even if he WERE it still wouldn't excuse his behavior.
      There's a saying that the powerless have the power to defeat the all-powerful
      Oh really/
      Now granted this is based on the assumption that the so-called all-powerful isn't a real god
      Well I have an obsession with non gods being able to outmuscle gods

      This is something we can see in the real world today. It's exactly the reason why bosses have to know there's a limit to their power abuse

      True but that's political power.

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    • Yeah but it proves you can't abuse the power in any way you want because ultimately you need these people.

      Same thing in Viktor's case

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Yeah but it proves you can't abuse the power in any way you want because ultimately you need these people.

      Same thing in Viktor's case

      True but Viktor never thought about that.

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    • Dont mind me interupt but we know this page dont belong to a dead person named Victor. It belongs to a question that, is Michael dead or not. Actually that is my main reason for being here. Although I know that all others r not here for this same reason but u know we can some day talk about Michael too.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Yeah but it proves you can't abuse the power in any way you want because ultimately you need these people.

      Same thing in Viktor's case

      True but Viktor never thought about that.

      Yes, because he didn't realize there were limitations

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Yeah but it proves you can't abuse the power in any way you want because ultimately you need these people.

      Same thing in Viktor's case

      True but Viktor never thought about that.

      Yes, because he didn't realize there were limitations

      More accurately that he didn't count on the possibility of people losing their fear of him.

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    • In retrospect, if Lucian hadn't done what he did, they wouldn't have at that moment

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: In retrospect, if Lucian hadn't done what he did, they wouldn't have at that moment

      True

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    • However it was clear there were vampires who felt the situation was getting out of control

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: However it was clear there were vampires who felt the situation was getting out of control

      Yup

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    • Coleman specifically said that by punishing Lucian like this it'll stir up the other lycans. Almost everyone would agree with that statement, even if Lucian didn't choose to rebel.

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    • Of course, had Coleman not said it, other vampires would have anyway

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Of course, had Coleman not said it, other vampires would have anyway

      True

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    • Viktor only felt Coleman opposed him because he was one of Marcus's creations

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Viktor only felt Coleman opposed him because he was one of Marcus's creations

      Coleman was a first generation Vampire?

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    • From the novel (and it's been a long time since I read it), I think Marcus had personally turned him

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: From the novel (and it's been a long time since I read it), I think Marcus had personally turned him

      Ok

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    • It's a reason Viktor despised the guy

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: It's a reason Viktor despised the guy

      And because Viktor couldn't control him.

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    • I wouldn't say control, more like influence

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: I wouldn't say control, more like influence

      Yeah true and he hates that he can't have him killed because Marcus has placed him under his protection.

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    • Which proves in the end Viktor did not hold dominate Marcus in EVERY way possible

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which proves in the end Viktor did not hold dominate Marcus in EVERY way possible

      Indeed

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    • It therefore begs the Q just how much WAS Marcus able to defy Viktor

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: It therefore begs the Q just how much WAS Marcus able to defy Viktor

      Yeah, it also shows how much of a jerk Viktor was

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: It therefore begs the Q just how much WAS Marcus able to defy Viktor

      Yeah, it also shows how much of a jerk Viktor was

      In many ways I feel this was something Lucian should have brought up to Marcus during the times he ruled, LONG before the rebellion took place

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: It therefore begs the Q just how much WAS Marcus able to defy Viktor

      Yeah, it also shows how much of a jerk Viktor was

      In many ways I feel this was something Lucian should have brought up to Marcus during the times he ruled, LONG before the rebellion took place

      But consider this, doing so might have been forbidden.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: It therefore begs the Q just how much WAS Marcus able to defy Viktor

      Yeah, it also shows how much of a jerk Viktor was
      In many ways I feel this was something Lucian should have brought up to Marcus during the times he ruled, LONG before the rebellion took place
      But consider this, doing so might have been forbidden.

      You're assuming a law actually existed at that moment

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: It therefore begs the Q just how much WAS Marcus able to defy Viktor

      Yeah, it also shows how much of a jerk Viktor was
      In many ways I feel this was something Lucian should have brought up to Marcus during the times he ruled, LONG before the rebellion took place
      But consider this, doing so might have been forbidden.

      You're assuming a law actually existed at that moment

      Knowing Viktor there probably was a law like that.

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    • I thought the whole digging into the past being forbidden was via Lucian's rebellion. This is BEFORE Lucian rebelled I'm talking about here

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    • It was but I doubt that Lycan slaves were allowed to speak directly to elders.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      It was but I doubt that Lycan slaves were allowed to speak directly to elders.

      Yeah but it wasn't explain just what they were allowed to talk to them about

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      It was but I doubt that Lycan slaves were allowed to speak directly to elders.

      Yeah but it wasn't explain just what they were allowed to talk to them about

      True

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    • Of course, you could also argue that Viktor didn't REALLY tighten the rules until after Lucian's rebellion

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Of course, you could also argue that Viktor didn't REALLY tighten the rules until after Lucian's rebellion

      True

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    • As I see it, the rules should have been tightened only AFTER the rebellion because Viktor doesn't want anyone to know the REAL reason for the Vampire-Lycan war.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: As I see it, the rules should have been tightened only AFTER the rebellion because Viktor doesn't want anyone to know the REAL reason for the Vampire-Lycan war.

      True but then shouldn't Lucian have had the right to communicate with Marcus? Unless Marcus was asleep during Lucian's birth and growth to adulthood.

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    • Actually, that's very possible. Look at the Lucian page on the wiki. He was born in 1207, and by the time of the 1st film, it was believed that he died about 600 years ago, which would have meant the rebellion took place sometime during the early 1400s.

      Therefore, only about 200 years passed from his birth to the moment he began the rebellion against Viktor.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Actually, that's very possible. Look at the Lucian page on the wiki. He was born in 1207, and by the time of the 1st film, it was believed that he died about 600 years ago, which would have meant the rebellion took place sometime during the early 1400s.

      Therefore, only about 200 years passed from his birth to the moment he began the rebellion against Viktor.

      Indeed

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    • However, I still don't believe that's a total valid excuse. Even if he never got a chance to speak to Marcus, there was still Amelia.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: However, I still don't believe that's a total valid excuse. Even if he never got a chance to speak to Marcus, there was still Amelia.

      But I doubt Amelia would have dared to defy Viktor's policies.

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    • It's hard to say. If nothing else, it was clear from Blood Wars that Amelia didn't approve of Viktor's ways.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: It's hard to say. If nothing else, it was clear from Blood Wars that Amelia didn't approve of Viktor's ways.

      Yeah he was jerk.

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    • I mean sure Amelia approved of Viktor locking William up, but that's because she couldn't see the bond Marcus shared with his brother.

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: I mean sure Amelia approved of Viktor locking William up, but that's because she couldn't see the bond Marcus shared with his brother.

      I think its more accurate to say that she supported locking William up because of the danger he posed.

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    • True, but that does NOT explain how she felt towards Viktor's policy on the 2nd generation lycans

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: True, but that does NOT explain how she felt towards Viktor's policy on the 2nd generation lycans

      Indeed

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    • I mean for the 1st generation I can see it being easy, as Amelia could see they're too animalistic to be anything more than just savages

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: I mean for the 1st generation I can see it being easy, as Amelia could see they're too animalistic to be anything more than just savages

      True but they are still smart

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    • I'm not denying that. Likely Amelia saw that part too, unlike Viktor

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: I'm not denying that. Likely Amelia saw that part too, unlike Viktor

      Possibly.

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    • But my point is that Amelia could have felt the 1st generation lycans simply wouldn't work out as slaves because they're too feral

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: But my point is that Amelia could have felt the 1st generation lycans simply wouldn't work out as slaves because they're too feral

      That seemed to be a universal opinion

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    • Which really makes you wonder what drove Viktor to believe it could work in the first place

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which really makes you wonder what drove Viktor to believe it could work in the first place

      Wasn't he a tyrant? That may well be what convinced him.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which really makes you wonder what drove Viktor to believe it could work in the first place

      Wasn't he a tyrant? That may well be what convinced him.

      You need to put delusion into the mix too. There have been tyrants who managed to keep rebellion to a minimal because he understood there are limits to power abuse

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Which really makes you wonder what drove Viktor to believe it could work in the first place

      Wasn't he a tyrant? That may well be what convinced him.

      You need to put delusion into the mix too. There have been tyrants who managed to keep rebellion to a minimal because he understood there are limits to power abuse

      Yeah that's true.

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    • Hell likely the human subjects themselves would have rebelled had the lycans not done so in the film

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Hell likely the human subjects themselves would have rebelled had the lycans not done so in the film

      Yeah they would have. But Viktor doesn't seem to be the type that learns from his mistakes.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Hell likely the human subjects themselves would have rebelled had the lycans not done so in the film

      Yeah they would have. But Viktor doesn't seem to be the type that learns from his mistakes.

      Again, this goes back to the problem that he didn't realize however much power he had, he's not a god

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Psi-ragnarok wrote: Hell likely the human subjects themselves would have rebelled had the lycans not done so in the film

      Yeah they would have. But Viktor doesn't seem to be the type that learns from his mistakes.

      Again, this goes back to the problem that he didn't realize however much power he had, he's not a god

      When Marcus went insane he seemed to think himself a god.

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    • Yes but at that point in time the hybrid concept was new. Remember, Underworld 1 and Evolution took place only hours apart.

      Prior to what happened with Michael, I don't think there's ever been a hybrid before

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    • Psi-ragnarok wrote: Yes but at that point in time the hybrid concept was new. Remember, Underworld 1 and Evolution took place only hours apart.

      Prior to what happened with Michael, I don't think there's ever been a hybrid before

      True enough but he had also been wallowing in his own hate for centuries

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    • A FANDOM user
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